Minutes Telecon 2015-10-07
- Everyone was reminded to add items to the wiki for TPAC conversation.
- The Houdini task force will meet on the Thursday of TPAC. They may also hold a breakout session on the plenary day depending on if there are proposals for specific topics and/or meet on Friday if they need more time.
- Resolved: Adopt Section 3 of the Snapshot.
- Resolved: Publish Snapshot.
- Florian and fantasai agreed that the spec should say something along the lines of the UA must provide a smart behavior and should match platform with ‘be smart’ defined as ‘provide a good experience’. They will work on solidifying the wording.
- Resolved: In
pre-wrap, disallow wrapping before the first space.
- The right people weren’t on the call for a resolution regarding the behavior of
scrollLeft in RTL or vertical-rl mode, but webkit plans to change to be more consistent with the proposal.
- Using
start and end for positioning needs a consistent decision between all 2d positioning, not just for floats. It was added to the TPAC agenda.
- There was a strong feeling from Rossen that there wasn’t a need to make Grid and Flexbox consistent in their
auto value for alignment. The spec will be left as-is for now and fantasai will look for more feedback, especially from authors.
- Resolved: Issue #19 for Framentation is out of scope.
- Resolved: Take Roc’s suggested wording about keeping inline blocks non-fragmented (Issue #21 for Framentation)
- Resolved: Each fragmentainer must contain at least some content or fragment of content.
- Issue #24 for Framentation, adding
force to the page, column, and region keywords, still needs to be discussed either on a call or at TPAC.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-09-30
- Tuesday afternoon is the best option for a joint meeting with WebApps during TPAC.
- The Sydney F2F dates are January 30th and 31st for Houdini, February 1st to 3rd for CSS, February 4th to 6th for SVG.
- Jihye reviewed her proposal for
polar-anchor (available here). Generally there was agreement that this was useful and the right direction for this property. There was concern that the property could still cause overflow even though this was designed to prevent it. auto seemed like it could be what prevents the overflow, but was under-specified in this proposal and needed to be fleshed out more.
- Resolved: Add
polar-anchor with issues for better specifying auto and percentages.
- dbaron has made the edits to Animations to revert the change to
animation-timing-function.
- TabAtkins will make the proposed changes to the computed values of
translate, rotate, and scale (available here) to the Transforms spec.
- The group will let fantasai and Richard Ishida come to a solution regarding
ruby-merge.
- There was a proposal to add
:focus-ring to allow authors to only style the focus ring when the browser would normally trigger a focus ring as a way to narrow-down the more generic :focus pseudo-class. There were concerns that this would have negative accessibility implications, but it was argued those implications exist within :focus and should be addressed there- this makes the problem no worse than what already exists. The name seemed problematic to some people so it may need bikeshedding later.
- Resolved: Add
:focus-ring to Selectors 4 or 5.
- The example in this e-mail the stacking context would happen at the 49% keyframe.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-09-23
- Resolved: Extend
resize to img, object, iframe, canvas, video, svg in level 4 of CSS UI.
- Resolved: Add normative prose in level 3 of CSS UI that a UI may extend
resize as described for level 4.
- Anyone involved in Houdini was asked to put their name on the wiki saying if they are available to attend a meeting at TPAC and, if so, what days they would be available.
- Resolved: Describe
sideways as what sideways-right used to do. State that for legacy compat UA may support sideways-right value that does the same thing and computes to sideways.
- Resolved: Moving a float to the next fragmentainer does not move in-flow content that comes after the float. (However, per CSS2.1, subsequent floats do move down.)
- Resolved: Clarify in Backgrounds level 3 you can’t make the border boundry solid black.
- The group needs to hear from TabAtkins about Chrome’s current timeline for the change in control characters. Depending on what TabAtkins says, if some browsers are still planning on releasing the change in December, the publicity campaign for this breaking change needs to begin ASAP for the web developers to have time to react.
- Spec authors were reminded that they need to post notifications to www-style when their spec is published (full publication rules are here).
Full Minutes
First Public Working Draft of CSS Basic User Interface Module Level 4
The CSS Working Group has published the First Public Working Draft of CSS Basic User Interface Module Level 4. This specification describes user interface related properties and values to style HTML and XML (including XHTML).
Changes since level 3 of the same document include specification of the user-select and appearance properties, the addition of a fade value to the text-overflow property, and additional controls over the text insertion caret.
Significant changes since level 3 are listed in the change section.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org
with the spec code ([css-ui-4]) and your comment topic in the subject line.
(Alternatively, you can email the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
First Public Working Draft of Text Level 4
The CSS Working Group has published a First Public Working Draft of CSS Text Module Level 4. This module defines additional properties for text manipulation.
The main work on CSS Text is still being done in Level 3. So until that work stabilizes, CSS Text Level 4 is a diff spec containing only new and/or deferred material. This includes:
- A shorthand version of white-space property that expands to new properties controlling whitespace collapsing and trimming.
- New properties for controlling line breaks, including forced line breaks, balancing line lengths, and hints for where to avoid line breaks where possible.
- Hyphenation properties, a character-based text-align value, and the text-spacing property deferred from the last module level.
We’re looking for review on all aspects of the draft.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-text-4]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
CSS Inline Layout Updated
The CSS Working Group has published an updated Working Draft of CSS Inline Layout Module Level 3. This module covers inline vertical alignment and special typographic effects
for initial letters, such as drop caps.
Changes since the previous Working Draft include:
We’re actively looking for review on all aspects of the draft, and in particular need help with handling non-Western scripts.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-inline]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
CSS Grid Layout Level 1 Updated
The CSS Working Group has published an updated Working Draft of CSS Grid Layout Level 1. This module defines a new type of layout manager, the grid, which makes it extremely easy to specify complex, responsive 2-dimensional layouts for a page or components.
The editors consider this draft to be the final design draft. There are a few open issues left, but these are mostly fixes and clarifications to the algorithms–the main one of which is ensuring the flexbox and grid flexing and fragmentation algorithms are in sync. There’s also one on visibility: collapse, which might be nice to solve, but might get pushed to Level 2. We will be updating the spec as we work through these, but don’t expect to make any significant changes to any existing features–unless someone sends a comment that requires such a change.
Your feedback is still welcome on the featureset and syntax. However because we’re hoping to prepare the final draft the week after TPAC, we would greatly prefer to receive said comments in time for discussion at the the CSSWG F2F–which begins on the 25th of October 2015.
We are looking especially for
- Feedback on anything you think is badly designed.
- Suggestions of use cases that are important to consider.
- Help with examples, figures, and making the spec generally more readable and understandable.
Changes since the last Working Draft are listed in the Changes section.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-grid-layout]) and your comment topic in the subject line. Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment, post something on your own blog and send us a link, or leave a comment here.
Minutes Telecon 2015-09-16
- There were several announcements regarding TPAC
- Everyone was requested to add items to the TPAC agenda so that scheduling can be handled in advance.
- Anyone planning on attending the Japanese Industry Meet-Up on the Sunday before TPAC was asked to please add their name to the wiki as well as any topics they’d like discussed. The start time and agenda will be announced shortly after a venue is decided upon.
- Lastly, anyone looking to attend the Monday evening developer meet-up at TPAC was reminded to sign up.
- Apple and Microsoft are still reviewing the prefixing policy language in the Snapshot 2015 so it couldn’t be finalized. Apple had some preliminary feedback that lead to further conversation about the word ‘unstable’ in section 3.2.3. Market Pressure and De Facto Standards.
- fantasai will further clarify the word ‘unstable’ and perhaps use an alternate word.
- The feedback also lead to a conversation about doing a better job making the case as to why the prefix policy change is good for implementors.
- Florian will write up a note with the rational which he summarized in the call by saying: “vendors can remove the prefixed version once the bugs are ironed out because there will be no risk to compat by removing the prefix because everyone also used the unprefixed version.”
- Resolved: Replaced sizing remains physical in Writing Modes. Add an appendix about the consideration of the security and privacy concerns.
- The authors of Writing Modes plan to ask for a new CR publication as soon as next week so if there are any outstanding issues, please add them now.
- Resolved: Add the form feed character (U+000C) and make sure all CSS specs align on the definition of white space.
- The group agreed that they wanted cases like Florian’s to be able to use a prefixed property in a spec example for what behavior should look like when implemented however the ability to do this is a W3C level decision so plh will discuss it with the appropriate parties.
Full Minutes
Minutes Paris F2F 2015-08-27 Part III: Input Modality, Page Floats, Writing Modes, Snapshot 2015, Flexbox % Follow-Up
Input Modality
- bkardell brought his proposal for a pseudo-class that allows control over the focus ring depending on the input method.
- There was wide agreement that it was a useful and needed property.
- Resolved: bkardell as editor of new ED for input modality (name pending)
Full Minutes
Page Floats
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Writing Modes
- Resolved: Make the
caption-side: top | bottom values logical, drop logical keywords.
- Resolved: Propagate ‘direction’ and ‘writing-mode’ from BODY to FOO (HTML if not BODY). To be reopened if tests show this isn’t the way it’s being done already
- Resolved: Switch to the new model, mark
sideways-lr and sideways-rl as at-risk. Revisit if jdaggett objects because he’s not here.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Snapshot 2015
- Those present were generally positive about the new text, but some key individuals were missing, so the final decision will happen on the next telecon.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Flexbox % Follow-Up
- There was new input for the conversation that the use of percentage margin will reduce as grid and flexbox are used more, however there was still no conclusion.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Paris F2F 2015-08-27 Part II: Selectors, will-change, Scroll Snap
Selectors
- Resolved: Put a SHOULD recommendation in for authors to use the double-colon not the single-colon pseudo-element syntax.
- Resolved: Keep section 3.6.3. (Pseudo-classing Pseudo-elements) overall. Add guidance to people developing new pseudo-elements on when to specify if they accept user action pseudo-classes. Remove the statement from
:hover that it applies to all pseudo-elements: pseudo-elements must individually enable pseudo-classes they need.
- Resolved: Pseudo-element and pseudo-class combinations are invalid unless defined to be a valid thing that could potentially match something (for pseudo-classes on pseudo-elements)
- Resolved:
:matches() and :not() are allowed on pseudo-elements. They are only valid when they contain only pseudo-classes that are valid in that context.
- Resolved: If any simple selector accepts a given type of selector it must also accept
:not() and :matches(). If it accepts a combinator after it it also must accept :has().
- Resolved: Behavior defined for combinators after pseudo-elements as written in the pseudo spec is okay.
- Resolved: Close issue on naming
:any-link because there’s no better ideas
- Resolved: Rename
:user-error to :user-invalid
- Resolved: Add
:user-valid, mark :user-valid and :user-invalid as at-risk
- Resolved: Drop
:blank
- Resolved: Change the spec so
:empty will trigger on white space- waiting on compat data to confirm this is an okay change.
- Resolved: Keep
:drop(), mark at-risk.
- Resolved: Keep
:nth-child(An+B of selector) where selector is limited to a compound selector containing only feature selectors. Absolutely no nesting :nth-child().
:nth-child(An+B of selector), :nth-last-column(), :nth-column(), :drop, and :focus-within will be marked as at-risk.:has, :placeholder, :read-write and :read-only will stay in this level.:column() will be deferred to level 5.- Resolved: drop >>
- Publication will wait until the interested parties have come to a conclusion about the algorithm describing how to evaluate a selector.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
will-change
- The will-change property will still be applied even if it doesn’t change. Though it may cause the page to slow down, that is because authors didn’t design their pages well, not a problem with the property.
- will-change with animations will still create a stacking context.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Scroll Snap
- Mozilla expressed a concern about the changes discussed yesterday: they were worried that they would make the changes but no other browser would.
- A timeline was established to make the changes discussed so that browsers hopefully should have time to make the changes necessary to converge on implementation of the better behavior.
Full Minutes || Snap Points Spec, Snap Points Proposal
![[Photo: group photo of the CSS working group in Lyon, France]](/web/20151009001200im_/http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/csswg-2010.jpg)
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