Minutes Telecon 2015-03-18
- The
continue property for region-fragment received the most attention for bikeshedding. One issue with continue is that it is a verb when almost all property names have been nouns or adjectives. Some people were inclined to return the name to fragmentation but most of the group felt that would have no context outside of the working group. It was suggested that there was likely vocabulary for this concept and that users of programs like inDesign or PhotoShop would likely have some suggestions.
- There was also clarification on the purpose of having the
region-fragment properties defined outside the overflow context. It was agreed thought they are similar, they’re not the same and therefore should be separate.
- TabAtkins brought up that the current behavior of
all isn’t viewed as particularly accessible since it removes the :focus outline on an element. Consensus was the old default that was removed from the spec would fix the problem. The spec authors will go back and see if there are any reasons that default was removed that need to be addressed and re-introduce next week for formal resolution.
- The Microsoft team will look into if Microsoft is open to submitting
.cur and .ico to the web consortium.
- Resolved: Add a note saying
.cur and .ico are the standards and they will be expected in new products. It’s an informative note. It will be up to the person writing the note as to what exactly goes inside.
- There were no objections to mandating PNG as a supported format of the
image CSS value, as well as SVG if the implementation supports SVG and saying for cursor that all non animated formats supported for image MUST be supported in cursor, and that all animated formats supported in image SHOULD be supported in cursor. However, Microsoft asked for a week to review, so formal resolution will be asked for on next week’s call.
- Most people seemed to agree that we should overflow the same way we’re doing other logical properties and whichever is declared later wins the cascade, but conversation will continue on the mailing list to suss out any added complications.
- For now, work on
trailing-spaces will be in CSS Text Level 4
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-03-11
- Resolved: Don’t add a property to hide scrollbars at this time.
- Florian brought up the two different allowed implementations of pre-wrap in the CSS Text spec and his belief that it’s confusing to have two different behaviors and that neither of the spec’ed behaviors may meet author expectations. Everyone spent time with the examples and comparing them to text editors and word processing software to determine if there really is an expected behavior. None of the implementors had an interest in changing their version and the group wasn’t convinced this is necessary given that most editing on the web is done with custom code.
- Resolved: Add the
trailing-spaces value to text-decoration-skip.
- It was agreed that, though the proposal to create special word-break rules for Korean (available here) was possible, it wasn’t necessary as feedback from Koreans has been that the current default is acceptable behavior.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-03-04
- Resolved: Publish a new working draft of CSS Grid.
- Resolved: TabAtkins and dbaron are co-editors for Animations.
- Resolved: Do not change the current Flexbox spec for now knowing the compat risk with the change in abspos handling.
- Resolved: Publish a new WD for CSS3 UI.
- Everyone, especially implementors, were actioned to review Florian’s proposal (available here) for a more precise description of how box-sizing works. There will be three weeks to review the proposal before the issue is revisited.
- There was a conversation about potentially reverting vertical percentage padding/margin to match block. The argument for reverting was for consistency in the odd things about CSS so people only have to learn a weird rule, not a weird rule and its exceptions. The argument against reverting was to allow grid and flexbox to work in a way that was more intuitive to app developers that are relying on these tools. A compromise was raised to create a switch, such as creating ph and pw, so that authors can choose their behavior of choice instead of forcing one group or the other to think outside their desired approach. This idea met with favor. The implementors will hold a conversation to find out more about who is willing to implement what while discussion continues on the mailing list to further flesh out people’s opinions and proposals.
- Resolved: We keep selectors not in the fast profile and not implemented as invalid and we clarify it in the spec.
Full Minutes
CSS Fragmentation L3 Last Call for Comments
The CSS WG has published an updated Working Draft of the CSS Fragmentation Module Level 3. This module describes the fragmentation model that partitions a flow into pages, columns, or regions and provides controls for breaking.
We expect this to be the last WD before CR, and plan to transition at the end of March. Please review and send us any comments. If you plan to review but aren’t sure you have time, send us a note so that we know to wait for your comments.
We are particularly looking for feedback on
- Which rules are dropped when breaks are overconstrained.
- Anything that appears to be insufficiently specified or explained.
We are particularly looking for reviews from
- Anyone who makes a print or PDF output implementation.
- Anyone who makes an eBook implementation.
- Anyone who authors documents for such implementations.
We also welcome any submissions of better/more examples and diagrams.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-break]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
Minutes Telecon 2015-02-25
- Everyone should review the proposal for WebVTT from the VTT Working Group and send comments to the email thread.
- Everyone present thought the change to abspos was still the right thing and that more implementors need to make the change. Further discussion on the topic was deferred until next week when more implementors are on the call.
- Florian requested that everyone look over his proposed solution to issue 69 of CSS3 UI.
- Resolved: Add some normative text to make it explicit that the stacking of focus outline is left to the implementor to provide better user experience.
- Resolved: Tighten the language of the directional focus property behavior and include an informative note about the behaviors we’re considering and welcome/actively solicit input.
- Resolved: Add
@supports to Cascade Level 4
- Resolved: Create an Editor’s Draft for Cascade Level 4
- Resolved: Properties referencing corners drop the axis mentions and go into the block axis first, for example
border-start-end-radius (in CSS Logical Properties)
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-01-28
- dbaron asked that everyone review the Transitions editor’s draft since he hopes to bring it up for publication at the F2F.
- Since both chairs, and likely many others, will be traveling next Wednesday (4 Feb.), there will be no telecon.
- Everyone was reminded to add items to the wiki for discussion in Sydney.
- Resolved: Turn the old roadmap into a 301 redirect to /TR/CSS and discuss updating /TR/CSS at the F2F
- Resolved: Use
content as the new value for flex-basis
- TabAktins explained his rational for in Flexbox creating
no-wrap as an alias to nowrap to alleviate author confusion. However, the group remained unconvinced as to if it was the best way forward. This issue will remain open while the group explores more possibilities and looks for more information.
- The remaining Flexbox issues still need some work and/or understanding before they’re ready for the group, though they should be ready by the F2F.
- fantasai brought her proposal for extending the
break-* properties to control inline layout. It received a warm reception as an idea worth exploring.
- The
text-wrap: balance proposal was also well received with a lot of people showing interest in developing it further.
- fantasai stated that she and astearns will be bringing their unofficial editor’s draft for CSS4 Text to the group shortly to formalize it.
- Resolved: Change the ‘must’ into a ‘should’ and remove the reference to “may ignore” for issue 38 of CSS3 UI
- Resolved: Document
ime-mode as obsolete as described in the draft of CSS3 UI
- There was discussion on changing the language for
ime-mode to say browsers “should not” support, however that wasn’t resolved upon so the previously resolved upon publication will go forward with the existing language and the “should not” language will wait for a formal resolution.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-01-21
- BCampbell brought his revised proposal for addressing the accessibility concerns created when Flexbox changes the visual order of the boxes and the tab order. The new proposal is to create a method for authors to designate if the order is important so that only those items with the important signifier will have their tab order changed in line with the visual order.
- There were several questions about the implications of the proposal and clarifications about if a change is even needed.
- Another suggestion what the the directional
nav-* properties from CSS3 UI might help address some of the issues.
- Several people brought up that this issue seems larger than just Flexbox and has been around since early CSS.
- It was agreed that this topic would be best solved at a F2F meeting. bcampbell said he’d try and make it to Sydney, but likely it would have to wait until NYC in May.
- Resolved:
align-content and justify-content on grid containers operate on the grid tracks (allows distributing extra space between grid tracks)
- Resolved: Publish a new working draft of CSS3 UI
- tantek will make note of the outstanding issues and objections in the working draft so that they’re a part of the publication
- Resolved: Accept the proposed change for the serialization order for
final-bg-color (available here)
- fantasai brought her and dauwhe’s potential solutions for when a float is interacting with an initial letter in Inline. SteveZ raised an alternate proposal that he thought might handle the problem a bit better. Several people were unsure as to which proposal is best without visual examples, so this topic was also declared a good fit for the F2F in February.
Full Minutes
CSS Pseudo-elements Level 4 First Public Working Draft
The CSS Working Group has published an updated Working Draft of CSS Pseudo-elements Level 4. This module describes the syntax, styling, and inheritance/cascading models for each of the existing CSS pseudo elements, re-introduces ::selection (with a much more comprehensive description of how it’s supposed to work), and introduces a few new ones, such as ::placeholder.
This is a First Public Working Draft, and is in a somewhat rough state. Feedback is welcome, especially corrections. The ::selection section in particular could use a close review.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-foo]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
Minutes Telecon 2015-01-14
- Resolved: Add Tamil back to Counter Styles spec
- The discussion of
order affecting tab order and speech order in Flexbox will wait until Bo Campbell is on the call.
- Resolved: Re-add the mandatory minimum of one million tracks to Grid for
repeat()
- Resolved: Drop the
stack value from Grid
- Resolved: Allow “auto” in
minmax() for Grid, have it look at min-width/height for value, using same “auto” behavior as Flexbox
- Resolved: Accept
repeat(auto, ...) syntax for Grid
- Deferring on a decision about justifying grid tracks to give a chance to consider the implications.
- Resolved: Unprefix
min/max-content keywords
- Resolved: Require quoting
:lang() values as a string if they have asterisks
- There was some concerns about the implications of the change regarding ‘direction’ propagation from
body, but due to the limited amount of time remaining on the call, nothing was resolved or decided.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-01-07
- Resolved: Meet 18, 19, 20 of May in NYC hosted by Bloomberg
- Everyone received an action to post topics for the meeting in Sydney on the wiki for the F2F
- Resolved: Publish with the Pseudo-Elements draft as-is, noting that what’s there for the OM is just some ideas as a starting point for discussion
- Resolved: keep
::grammar-error and ::spelling-error in the Pseudo-Elements draft
- Resolved: Publish FPWD of CSS Pseudo-Elements
- fantasai will put her proposal for having descendants of
p::selection inherit the style into the spec.
- Everyone received an action to review the wiki tracking Flexbox accessibility concerns created by bcampbell in order to discuss it next week.
- Resolved: For CSS3 UI we intend ‘auto’ to cover behaviors that can’t be described by other styles in the UA style sheet, and we want to define it more precisely, but we need to work out on the list what that definition should be
- There didn’t seem to be much interest in implementing
::value and ::choices in the near future from implementors, however the group will wait on a formal write-up for ::placeholder before deciding on if ::value and ::choices should be moved to Pseudo-Elements from CSS3 UI.
Full Minutes
![[Photo: group photo of the CSS working group in Lyon, France]](/web/20150325023343im_/http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/csswg-2010.jpg)
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