IRC log of xproc on 2013-03-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:36 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #xproc
13:59:36 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-xproc-irc
13:59:41 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #xproc
13:59:45 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xporc
13:59:45 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Norm
13:59:47 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xproc
13:59:48 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:52 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
13:59:52 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
13:59:52 [Norm]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2013/03/20-agenda
13:59:52 [Norm]
Date: 20 Mar 2013
13:59:52 [Norm]
Meeting: 229
13:59:52 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
13:59:52 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
13:59:53 [Norm]
ScribeNick: norm
13:59:53 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started
14:00:02 [Zakim]
+ +420.6.026.9.aaaa
14:00:16 [jfuller]
I'm in the conference
14:00:33 [jfuller]
telcon ... alone ...
14:00:43 [Norm]
zakim, aaaa is jfuller
14:00:43 [Zakim]
+jfuller; got it
14:00:49 [Zakim]
-jfuller
14:00:49 [Norm]
zakim, passcode?
14:00:50 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
14:00:50 [Zakim]
Attendees were +420.6.026.9.aaaa, jfuller
14:00:50 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Norm
14:00:58 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started
14:01:04 [Zakim]
+??P3
14:01:09 [Norm]
zakim, ??p3 is me
14:01:09 [Zakim]
+Norm; got it
14:01:19 [Norm]
jfuller: come back! :-)
14:01:37 [Vojtech]
Vojtech has joined #xproc
14:02:10 [Zakim]
+jfuller
14:02:21 [Zakim]
+Jeroen
14:02:28 [Vojtech]
zakim, jeroen is me
14:02:28 [Zakim]
+Vojtech; got it
14:02:43 [alexmilowski]
Ringing, ringing, ringing, … hangup
14:02:55 [Norm]
try again, alexmilowski
14:03:00 [Norm]
maybe zakim just doesn't like you this morning
14:03:12 [Zakim]
+Alex_Milows
14:03:57 [jfuller]
note I've updated home page http://www.w3.org/XML/Processing/
14:04:09 [jfuller]
(added link to date2type xproc ref)
14:04:48 [jfuller]
and updated http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/xproc-zip_unzip.html Zip/Unzip note which I would like to add to todays (minor questions) or next week agenda
14:05:37 [Norm]
zakim, who's here?
14:05:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Norm, jfuller, Vojtech, Alex_Milows
14:05:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Vojtech, Zakim, RRSAgent, Norm, alexmilowski, ht_home, jfuller, liam
14:05:53 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Jim, Vojtech, Alex
14:05:57 [Norm]
Regrets: Mohamed, Murray
14:06:13 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
14:06:13 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2013/03/20-agenda
14:06:38 [Norm]
+ discussion of the zip/unzip step: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/xproc-zip_unzip.html
14:07:08 [Norm]
Accepted.
14:07:08 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
14:07:08 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2013/03/13-minutes
14:07:18 [Norm]
Accepted.
14:07:22 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: 27 Mar 2013?
14:07:32 [Norm]
No regrets heard.
14:07:36 [Norm]
Topic: Review of open action items
14:07:43 [Norm]
A-227-01 completed
14:09:03 [Norm]
Topic: Use cases and requirements
14:09:12 [Norm]
No progress.
14:09:52 [jfuller]
<scribe> ACTION: A-228-01 Jim to incorporate such a table into the new Use Cases and Requirements document. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/13-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
14:09:58 [Norm]
b
14:10:30 [Norm]
Topic: Zip and unzip steps
14:11:07 [Norm]
Jim: Are we going to have a policy on namespaces in notes?
14:11:19 [Norm]
...In the p:template note, we put the steps in the standard XProc namespace.
14:11:25 [Norm]
...Are we going to follow that convention?
14:11:40 [Norm]
Norm: I think we can put the steps we publish as W3C Notes in the XProc namespace.
14:11:55 [Norm]
No objections heard.
14:12:44 [Norm]
Jim: There's an open question about character sets. If you unzip an archive, and you get a file, what is the charset? Did we agree to amend the c:file element to include a charset?
14:12:50 [Norm]
Jim: If not, I think we should.
14:13:16 [Norm]
Norm: I think it's a good idea, whether we did or not, I think you can add it in the zip/unzip note.
14:14:07 [Norm]
Jim: On the zip step, we output the zip file on the result port.
14:14:21 [jfuller_]
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14:15:32 [Norm]
Norm: I thought the zip file updated a file at the @href location.
14:15:55 [Norm]
Alex: To some extent this depends on what we do with binaries and the pipeline in V.next.
14:16:21 [Norm]
...You could do what you're doing now, or if we get binary working, you could pass the zip file back.
14:16:38 [Norm]
...How quickly do we want this to be published?
14:16:48 [Norm]
...I have some questions about this relating to EPUB3 and encryption.
14:17:00 [Norm]
...I don't know if we can answer them that quickly.
14:17:10 [Norm]
Jim: I reviewed EPUB3 and I think this step can do it.
14:17:17 [Norm]
...The missing bit is the signature.
14:17:54 [Norm]
Some discussion of encryption and signatures for EPUB3
14:18:19 [Norm]
Norm: I don't think we have to rush to publish it.
14:20:15 [Norm]
Norm: There are two levels of encryption, a zip file can contain encrypted or it can contain encrypted items.
14:21:21 [Norm]
Jim: What happens if you have more documents on the source port than you specify in the manifest.
14:21:32 [Norm]
...Is that an error? Do we want to add an option?
14:21:45 [Norm]
Norm: I'd be content with either it's an error or they get ignored.
14:22:50 [Norm]
Some discussion of how to zip files that are sitting on disk.
14:25:54 [Norm]
Some discussion of the src attribute on the zip:entry
14:26:58 [Norm]
Jim observes that it's not finished; he just had some questions.
14:27:37 [Norm]
Jim: If we're going to publish this before V.next; we'll have to make it work with V.next.
14:27:39 [Norm]
zakim, mute alex
14:27:39 [Zakim]
Alex_Milows should now be muted
14:27:49 [Norm]
...but we can republish it after V.next, right?
14:27:51 [Norm]
Norm: Yes.
14:27:52 [alexmilowski]
I've muted myself.
14:28:01 [Norm]
zakim, unmute alex
14:28:01 [Zakim]
Alex_Milows should no longer be muted
14:28:28 [Norm]
Alex: Is there a simple zip that we could put in here that would work today.
14:28:32 [Norm]
s/today./today?/
14:31:05 [Norm]
Norm rambles about some of the open questions
14:31:49 [jfuller_]
I think we can make a 'simple' example of zip that satisfies Alex concern
14:31:50 [Norm]
Vojtech: The zip step is different from p:store or p:xsl-formatter; it returns something different.
14:32:05 [Norm]
...In V.next we might want to return the binary data from those steps as well.
14:32:36 [Norm]
...Maybe we should do the same thing from p:zip, just return a URI that points to the ZIP file.
14:32:47 [Norm]
Norm: I could live with that.
14:33:32 [Norm]
Norm: We do need a p:zip-manifest step (or an option on p:unzip) that returns the manfiest.
14:33:38 [Norm]
s/manfiest/manifest/
14:34:27 [ht]
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14:36:45 [Norm]
Topic: Bug 20995
14:36:45 [Norm]
-> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20995
14:39:07 [Norm]
Jim: I'm not sure there is an answer.
14:39:23 [Norm]
Alex: I still maintain that it will be true during the execution of that XPath expression.
14:39:40 [Norm]
...And if it's evaluated later, it'll be true during that expression as well, even if it's different from the first time.
14:40:56 [Norm]
Alex: If I store a document and then later load it, do I get the same document.
14:42:59 [Norm]
Norm: In XSLT, you can't produce two xsl:result-documents with the same URI, but we don't impose that limitation.
14:43:15 [Norm]
Alex: If the execution context is each individual step, then you get the expected results.
14:43:36 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to make this point as a comment in bug 20995.
14:43:58 [Norm]
Topic: Bug 21002
14:44:04 [Norm]
-> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21002
14:45:17 [Norm]
<p:pipeline version='1.0' name="pipeline"
14:45:17 [Norm]
xmlns:p="http://www.w3.org/ns/xproc">
14:45:17 [Norm]
<p:option name="opt" required="true"/>
14:45:17 [Norm]
<p:identity/>
14:45:17 [Norm]
</p:pipeline>
14:45:47 [Norm]
Vojtech: For the outer pipeline, this isn't really a static check.
14:45:54 [Norm]
Norm: The outer-most evaluation is certainly special.
14:47:41 [Norm]
Vojtech: In the command-line case, it's certainly on the boundary between the static evaluation phase and the run phase.
14:48:03 [Norm]
Alex: It would be nice to leave it open to implementors.
14:48:13 [Norm]
...At minimum it should be a dynamic error.
14:48:41 [Norm]
Norm: I don't want to make it a dynamic error.
14:49:00 [Norm]
Vojtech: We could say it's a static error not to pass an option.
14:50:44 [Norm]
Norm: I propose that we remove the word invoke and add a note that says that the top-level execution is a little bit special
14:51:59 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to comment on 21002 with proposed wording.
14:52:25 [Norm]
Vojtech: We could say that the top level case is conceptually the same as having a pipeline that imports your pipeline and runs it.
14:53:02 [Norm]
Norm: I'm hoping we don't need to go to that level of detail.
14:53:44 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business?
14:54:37 [Norm]
Alex: Can we do something about Henry's actions?
14:54:41 [Norm]
Norm: Are you volunteering?
14:54:51 [Norm]
Alex: If I knew exactly what the changes were...
14:55:00 [Norm]
Norm: I'll see if I can point you to it or something.
14:55:40 [ht]
I'll do them right now
14:55:50 [ht]
I just got an hour of my life back
14:55:56 [Norm]
yay! :-)
14:56:03 [Norm]
Adjourned.
14:56:07 [Zakim]
-Vojtech
14:56:08 [Zakim]
-jfuller
14:56:10 [Norm]
rrsangent, set logs world-visible
14:56:15 [Zakim]
-Alex_Milows
14:56:15 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
14:56:15 [Zakim]
Attendees were Norm, jfuller, Vojtech, Alex_Milows
14:56:22 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:56:26 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-xproc-minutes.html Norm
15:28:38 [Norm]
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